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wannaberocker

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:10 pm

Sauceman wrote:
And even more contrary, there are certain rules and laws in the bible that we do not follow.  Like women wearing head coverings for modesty.  I only know one Christian woman who does that.  And the laws about make-up and gaudy jewelry, etc.  

So why do we ignore what is in the bible, but enforce things that aren't?
Because standards of modesty aren't written in stone. But you already know that.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:49 pm

They're not? They're in the bible. Standards of morality and modesty never change because God doesn't. Is truth universal or relative to each individual person?
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:47 pm

I wonder if church will be canceled due to inclement weather tomorrow, this winter storm is only supposed to get worse tonight and tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:53 pm

I was too tired to do dishes last night and there are ants everywhere now. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:53 pm

Yeah it just started snowing here. It's pretty Smile
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Miss Spaulding

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:33 pm

Sauceman wrote:
And even more contrary, there are certain rules and laws in the bible that we do not follow.  Like women wearing head coverings for modesty.  I only know one Christian woman who does that.  And the laws about make-up and gaudy jewelry, etc.  

So why do we ignore what is in the bible, but enforce things that aren't?
A lot of women in Presbyterian churches cover their heads. My church is like...'reformed' Presbyterian. I'd have to refresh my own memory on how to explain what that is. But in my church there are a lot of women who do cover their heads with scarves or a hat. My take on this is, a woman's hair is her covering. Because there's absolutely nothing 'immodest' about hair and showing it. Only mideastern type people would consider showing off your hair as immodest...because that's simply how their 'culture' works. It would have been the same in Biblical days. European and American culture is different, that doesn't make it wrong. So I personally consider a woman's hair to be her covering. You know, it was a really big thing in Biblical days for women to cut their hair (even for men in the Middle East), and even up until as late as the twentieth century was it looked down upon for a woman to cut her hair short. I think this is linked in with women's hair being a 'covering' for her.

As for makeup and jewelry, even back then women had jewelry, and I'm not talking about only the 'wealthy' people. Many, many women, even those who were followers of Christ might have had nose rings or whatever. That verse you speak about pertaining to jewelry and makeup is being spoken I believe in a "beware of vanity' sense. Which, in this day in age, vanity is certainly an epidemic. But there is nothing wrong in wearing makeup and jewelry in moderation. It's when you spend hours in front of the mirror fretting over your hair and the fact that you can't get your eye shadow just right, or that you can't possibly decide on which outfit to wear and what jewelry will perfectly match what, yada yada yada...oi. That's when there's a problem.
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Miss Spaulding

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:54 pm

Sauceman wrote:
But again, how does dressing up do anything for Him?  He doesn't request or require it.  There's nothing in the Word about it.  It's just something we do out of tradition and approval from others.  It's not a more Godly or reverent thing.  
RJ is correct though. He is worthy of it. We are required to be faithful and upright in even the most ordinary of things. Even in how we dress. ...Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Cor. 10:31) And by saying this, I don't mean it to come off as...'if you attend church in flip-flops you're going to hell'. I think we are expected to give our very best in all things, and to the glory of Him. Not for ourselves or for those watching...but because of Him and because it is simply the right thing to do.

I can't remember what vese or even what book, but I remember reading it recently. It was when God was, once again, angry and punishing the people because they were buying and selling, commiting whoredomes, and simply not behaving as they should while in 'God's house'. Granted, I understand these acts^ are worse than someone attending church dressed sloppily, but still: I think it's evidence that God would like us to treat His house, whether it be a mere little room with only a handful in attendence, or a giant beautiful sanctuary with thousands, with great respect...to treat it as a holy place.

Remember how our 'bodies are a temple'? When we become His, are bodies become a sort of temple and it too is considered a holy place. This is why we're instructed to remember that we are not our own and that we should respect our bodies in refraining from whatever that might defile it. Shouldn't we do the same for the church?


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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:01 pm

Thank you for your post. I'm not really knowledgeable on what sects are more devout about covering their hair, so it was interesting to learn Smile Yeah I don't think there's anything immodest about hair either. I just know what the word says.

1st Corinthians 11:6-10: "For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."

Also verse 13: "Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?"

I admit I don't understand where it comes in about the angels and why women ought to have authority on her head for them. But is this just culture or what God thinks is proper? Do we follow our own society's customs. It also says a woman's hair IS her covering in verse 15. I guess a lot of women shaved their heads in pagan worship?





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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:02 pm

You bring up good points, especially the verse about doing all for the glory of God. Smile
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Miss Spaulding

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:13 pm

Sauceman wrote:

1st Corinthians 11:6-10: "For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head.  For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.  For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.  Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."
Well, that particular verse has never made sense to me. It's almost riddle like. Where it sounds like it's saying one thing, the next part sounds like it's saying the opposite. It's just one of those confusing verses that stumps most people.

When it really comes down to it, I personally consider this one of those subject/arguments where it doesn't make that much of a difference either way. I don't believe for one minute that God isn't listening to a Christian woman's prayer who doesn't drape a scarf over her head.

But in any case, it's neither here nor there to me if a woman chooses to wear a scarf/hat on her head while in church. That's her business, not mine.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:19 pm

I could imagine you wearing one of those large, oversized hats like women used to wear Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:25 pm

Dandelions in the Rain wrote:
I was too tired to do dishes last night and there are ants everywhere now. Sad
:(Poor Eeyore, don't be so sad my horse-like friend. It's not the end of the world. Hug

You DO have a pink bow on your tail..... how many donkeys can say that?


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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:26 pm

Miss Spaulding wrote:
Sauceman wrote:
But again, how does dressing up do anything for Him?  He doesn't request or require it.  There's nothing in the Word about it.  It's just something we do out of tradition and approval from others.  It's not a more Godly or reverent thing.  
RJ is correct though. He is worthy of it. We are required to be faithful and upright in even the most ordinary of things. Even in how we dress. ...Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Cor. 10:31) And by saying this, I don't mean it to come off as...'if you attend church in flip-flops you're going to hell'. I think we are expected to give our very best in all things, and to the glory of Him. Not for ourselves or for those watching...but because of Him and because it is simply the right thing to do.

I can't remember what vese or even what book, but I remember reading it recently. It was when God was, once again, angry and punishing the people because they were buying and selling, commiting whoredomes, and simply not behaving as they should while in 'God's house'. Granted, I understand these acts^ are worse than someone attending church dressed sloppily, but still: I think it's evidence that God would like us to treat His house, whether it be a mere little room with only a handful in attendence, or a giant beautiful sanctuary with thousands, with great respect...to treat it as a holy place.

Remember how our 'bodies are a temple'? When we become His, are bodies become a sort of temple and it too is considered a holy place. This is why we're instructed to remember that we are not our own and that we should respect our bodies in refraining from whatever that might defile it. Shouldn't we do the same for the church?
I still think you have to give more weight to what's going on in the heart than simply what a person is wearing, and I do think that as someone grows in maturity in their walk with Christ, they probably will change the way they dress for church. But a baby Christian may not and that has to be okay.

Also, just as a side note, I have trouble with the whole "church is God's house" notion. It seems like it may come from the idea that God dwelt in the temple during Old Testament times, but the moment Christ died the curtain of the temple was torn in two, and God's dwelling place was no longer inside the temple, but in the hearts of those who surrender their lives to Him. So with that being said, I just don't see a basis for calling the church "God's house." It is the place that we gather to worship in unity with other believers, and it should obviously be respected, but I don't know if that's a basis upon which to make an argument for dressing a certain way. I will say, though, that respect for the community of believers itself that you are a part of would be reason enough to dress well, but I wouldn't put those expectations on unbelievers or baby Christians.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:34 pm

Toro wrote:
Dandelions in the Rain wrote:
I was too tired to do dishes last night and there are ants everywhere now. Sad
:(Poor Eeyore, don't be so sad my horse-like friend. It's not the end of the world. Hug

You DO have a pink bow on your tail..... how many donkeys can say that?
Woe is me.. I hate pink.

Why did no one ask me if I liked pink.

sad 



Razz

Thanks for the hug. Don't worry about Eeyore, he enjoys the rain.
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Toro

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:46 pm

As far as the clothing debate.

Going to church to celebrate God, to be closer to Him.... is FAR more of "our best" than putting on slacks and a dress shirt. I mean if nice dressing and "the BEST" and what He deserves" keeps being thrown out.

Why don't you wear Armani or some other over priced suit to church? I mean it is "the best" and does he not deserve to see His people in the best when they enter His house?

You can take that to any lengths you want.

How you dress is simply nothing more than looking good for the other people in His house, it has NOTHING what so ever to do with the celebration of HIM. Infact, if anything it detracts from him.

What if your good church clothes aren't clean and all you have are sweats, does that mean you don't go at all? IF you say you don't go that puts clothing ABOVE your fellowship with His people. A group you should be able to "come as you are" to. If you feel you MUST dress nice, it simply says "fashion is above God".

If you say you go anyway, you prove your own theories on an assumed "dress code" to be false.

Clothes don't matter, showing up to be closer to God, to be in fellowship with His people...... IS what matters. Not whether you are dressed nicely or not.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:57 pm

Paulie079 wrote:
I still think you have to give more weight to what's going on in the heart than simply what a person is wearing, and I do think that as someone grows in maturity in their walk with Christ, they probably will change the way they dress for church. But a baby Christian may not and that has to be okay.

Also, just as a side note, I have trouble with the whole "church is God's house" notion. It seems like it may come from the idea that God dwelt in the temple during Old Testament times, but the moment Christ died the curtain of the temple was torn in two, and God's dwelling place was no longer inside the temple, but in the hearts of those who surrender their lives to Him. So with that being said, I just don't see a basis for calling the church "God's house." It is the place that we gather to worship in unity with other believers, and it should obviously be respected, but I don't know if that's a basis upon which to make an argument for dressing a certain way. I will say, though, that respect for the community of believers itself that you are a part of would be reason enough to dress well, but I wouldn't put those expectations on unbelievers or baby Christians.
Let me clarify that I never once mentioned baby Christians and new believers like this was all directed towards them. I never mentioned them at all to be matter of fact. I actually was speaking in general, and if any of it was specifically directed, it was directed towards those who are 'not' new believers and know better. I also would like y'all to know that this isn't merely an opinion I randomly concocted, but one that's based on my own actual experiences and observances of people in churches, including my own my church. I'm not questioning their heart. In fact, that never entered my head. I just find it the proper thing to do, to look one's very best for church on Sunday. I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of far worse.

But while you mention new believers...I personally would never expect a brand new believer to suddenly 'get with the program' and come back to church the following Sunday dressed to the nines.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Watched Dateline last night. It was on the Westgate Mall terrorist attack in Kenya. It was really good.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:13 pm

I completely agree that its proper and nice. I was just questioning the notion of if I wear jeans instead of khakis that I just dont care.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:49 pm

The further one is in their walk with Christ, the LESS material things such as "nice clothes" or even being "nicely dressed" should matter.

Clothes are "worldly" things.

You want to give "your best" to Him, show up in jeans and a t-shirt, show up ready to listen to His word and apply whatever He speaks to you THROUGH His word to your life and I PROMISE you, He will be far more pleased and will strengthen your relationship with Him FAR more than the most expensive suit worn on Sunday (or any day) EVER could.

Saying that "dressing nice" is part of your salvation, takes away from the blood spilled on the cross and implys that YOU are capable of doing something to save yourself.

Dressing nice is at best a sign of respect to others IN the church (but even that is a stretch as no one should be offended that I look presentable, but I am not in nice clothes), it is in no way a sign of your level of faith.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:03 pm

There's another guy at work named RJ. It's fun talking to him. I can say things like "RJ, you're a menace!" and "When will you learn, RJ?" And for once I'm not talking to myself!
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Miss Spaulding

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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:44 pm

Sauceman wrote:
I could imagine you wearing one of those large, oversized hats like women used to wear Very Happy

LOL.

Yeah, well, one of these days I'm going to wear a big, beautiful hat like that to the Kentucky Derby. afro 
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:48 pm

Strider1002 wrote:
There's another guy at work named RJ. It's fun talking to him. I can say things like "RJ, you're a menace!" and "When will you learn, RJ?" And for once I'm not talking to myself!
You say that like talking to yourself is a bad thing. Razz

You know, I have found no one listens to me like myself. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:26 am

Miss Spaulding wrote:

Yeah, well, one of these days I'm going to wear a big, beautiful hat like that to the Kentucky Derby. afro 
And DOWN the STRETCH they COME!
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:29 am

^ Oh, you know it.
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PostSubject: Re: What's on your mind?   Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:32 am

Toro, your burrito has been found:

OKC Bomb Squad Says Suspicious Item Was a Burrito
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